What exactly does it mean to be a friend of HaYovel? Does it mean they donate money? I guess I’ll stop buying Holy Cacao. I don’t drink wine so that’s not a problem for me; however, how do we know they don’t get to SEE the finished product? That would make it NOT DRINKABLE by Jews (unless they cook the wine/grape juice).
A kashrut authority told me that gentiles can pick, but when the grapes are brought in, the gentiles pickers must remain outside from where they are enclosed.
There two concerns here.
One is that these Jews are now so enamored of these gentiles, seeing no difference between them and Jews, that we don't know if they can be trusted any longer to draw the distinction.
The second is that perhaps no place else in the world are gentiles picking grapes to be made into kosher wine as an act of service and worship to their man-god Yeshu. They have said over and over that they are worshiping in the vineyards with music and dance as they work. If idolatry is performed in the process of picking the grapes and if the harvesting itself is seen as a divine service being performed for the sake of the idol's will, does that make the resulting wine pasul or treif? I wish some rabbi somewhere would pasken on that. I really do.
please stop spreading lashon hara about these companies. just because they accept help from HaYovel (not necessarily financial)...doesn't mean they participate in "missionary" work.
i personally know the people who run these companies. nothing can be further from the truth.
as for the winemaking process, the people from HaYovel only pick the grapes. that's where it ends.
The post doesn't say these companies participate in missionary activities. It says they are friends of Hayovel, who have a missionary agenda. By using/ benefitting from Hayovel, they are enabling xians to meet and build relationships with religious Israeli Jews, in order to missionizing them. If these are good Jews they should cease working with and benefitting from Hayovel and ask to be removed from their website.
Hayovel claims they are fulling prophecy (Isaiah 61:5). “Strangers will stand and pasture your flocks, And foreigners will be your farmers and your vinedressers. “ So what is wrong with what they are doing?
The context of Isaiah 61 (60-63) is that of a glorified, redeemed Zion and the Jewish people, in which Kings and nations have acknowledged that Hashem G-d has lifted up, as proof of His sovereignty, Kingship and solitary essence to the exclusion of all others.
That the nations acknowledge this is found early on in Isaiah 2:2
“ Now it will come about that In the last days The mountain of the house of Hashem Will be established as the chief of the mountains, And will be raised above the hills; And all the nations will stream to it. 3 And many peoples will come and say, “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Hashem, To the house of the God of Jacob; That He may teach us concerning His ways And that we may walk in His paths.” For the law will go forth from Zion And the word of Hashem from Jerusalem. “
And in Jeremiah 16:
14 “Therefore behold, days are coming,” declares Hashem, “when it will no longer be said, ‘As Hashem lives, who brought up the sons of Israel out of the land of Egypt,’ 15 but, ‘As Hashem lives, who brought up the sons of Israel from the land of the north and from all the countries where He had banished them.’ For I will restore them to their own land which I gave to their fathers....
O Hashem, my strength and my stronghold, And my refuge in the day of distress, To You the nations will come From the ends of the earth and say, “Our fathers have inherited nothing but falsehood, Futility and things of no profit.” 20 Can man make gods for himself? Yet they are not gods! 21 “Therefore behold, I am going to make them know— This time I will make them know My power and My might; And they shall know that My name is HASHEM.”
Ezekiel says of this coming era:
44:9 ‘Thus says the Lord God, “No foreigner uncircumcised in heart and uncircumcised in flesh, of all the foreigners who are among the sons of Israel, shall enter My sanctuary.”
So clearly, at a future point in time the nations will see the truth of Hashem and the Jewish people His witnesses, adopting a true monotheistic belief in Hashem, dropping their idols, including the Nazarene.
We are not at that point in the redemption process yet.
Therefore, Hayovel is not fulfilling prophecy whatsoever. They think their actions are actually going to bring the return of their idol god-man and that Jewish people will be the ones bowing before him and declaring him god! Chas v’shalom! G-d forbid! Hayovel may wish to bless the people of Israel but it is with ulterior motives. Only Jews and Noahides should be permitted to work the vineyards and farms in Israel.
No Companies or people should be assisting "Hayovel"
There is lashon hara which is notonly permitted, but is a mitzvah to publicize. It is forbidden to remain quiet when Jews are in danger.
If you really do know these people personally, then be a friend, do a mitzvah, and warn them that they are angering HKB"H and there will be severe consequences for all those involved and those who remained quiet. Tell them they must stop hosting, promoting, encouraging, enabling, accepting and otherwise engaging with HaYovel and their group of Christian volunteers!
"There is lashon hara which is notonly permitted, but is a mitzvah to publicize. It is forbidden to remain quiet when Jews are in danger."
I agree. It's one thing for gentiles individually to involve themselves (without "outreach" of course). It's also one thing for Jewish run organizations run according to Jewish principles to reach out to gentiles. These goyish-run groups should not have any legitimacy or freedom to operate in Israel at all. They should be shunned. And the relationships they established with Jewish organizations and businesses in Israel should be publicized. It is not possible to separate their agenda from their efforts.
What exactly does it mean to be a friend of HaYovel? Does it mean they donate money? I guess I’ll stop buying Holy Cacao. I don’t drink wine so that’s not a problem for me; however, how do we know they don’t get to SEE the finished product? That would make it NOT DRINKABLE by Jews (unless they cook the wine/grape juice).
ReplyDeleteBelieve that wine from beginning to end of its process, must be done by Jews ONLY. Chilul H' on what is going on.
ReplyDeleteA kashrut authority told me that gentiles can pick, but when the grapes are brought in, the gentiles pickers must remain outside from where they are enclosed.
DeleteThere two concerns here.
One is that these Jews are now so enamored of these gentiles, seeing no difference between them and Jews, that we don't know if they can be trusted any longer to draw the distinction.
The second is that perhaps no place else in the world are gentiles picking grapes to be made into kosher wine as an act of service and worship to their man-god Yeshu. They have said over and over that they are worshiping in the vineyards with music and dance as they work. If idolatry is performed in the process of picking the grapes and if the harvesting itself is seen as a divine service being performed for the sake of the idol's will, does that make the resulting wine pasul or treif? I wish some rabbi somewhere would pasken on that. I really do.
please stop spreading lashon hara about these companies. just because they accept help from HaYovel (not necessarily financial)...doesn't mean they participate in "missionary" work.
ReplyDeletei personally know the people who run these companies. nothing can be further from the truth.
as for the winemaking process, the people from HaYovel only pick the grapes. that's where it ends.
The post doesn't say these companies participate in missionary activities. It says they are friends of Hayovel, who have a missionary agenda. By using/ benefitting from Hayovel, they are enabling xians to meet and build relationships with religious Israeli Jews, in order to missionizing them. If these are good Jews they should cease working with and benefitting from Hayovel and ask to be removed from their website.
DeleteHayovel claims they are fulling prophecy (Isaiah 61:5). “Strangers will stand and pasture your flocks, And foreigners will be your farmers and your vinedressers. “ So what is wrong with what they are doing?
DeleteThe context of Isaiah 61 (60-63) is that of a glorified, redeemed Zion and the Jewish people, in which Kings and nations have acknowledged that Hashem G-d has lifted up, as proof of His sovereignty, Kingship and solitary essence to the exclusion of all others.
That the nations acknowledge this is found early on in Isaiah 2:2
“ Now it will come about that
In the last days
The mountain of the house of Hashem
Will be established as the chief of the mountains,
And will be raised above the hills;
And all the nations will stream to it.
3 And many peoples will come and say,
“Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Hashem,
To the house of the God of Jacob;
That He may teach us concerning His ways
And that we may walk in His paths.”
For the law will go forth from Zion
And the word of Hashem from Jerusalem. “
And in Jeremiah 16:
14 “Therefore behold, days are coming,” declares Hashem, “when it will no longer be said, ‘As Hashem lives, who brought up the sons of Israel out of the land of Egypt,’ 15 but, ‘As Hashem lives, who brought up the sons of Israel from the land of the north and from all the countries where He had banished them.’ For I will restore them to their own land which I gave to their fathers....
O Hashem, my strength and my stronghold,
And my refuge in the day of distress,
To You the nations will come
From the ends of the earth and say,
“Our fathers have inherited nothing but falsehood,
Futility and things of no profit.”
20 Can man make gods for himself?
Yet they are not gods!
21 “Therefore behold, I am going to make them know—
This time I will make them know
My power and My might;
And they shall know that My name is HASHEM.”
Ezekiel says of this coming era:
44:9 ‘Thus says the Lord God, “No foreigner uncircumcised in heart and uncircumcised in flesh, of all the foreigners who are among the sons of Israel, shall enter My sanctuary.”
So clearly, at a future point in time the nations will see the truth of Hashem and the Jewish people His witnesses, adopting a true monotheistic belief in Hashem, dropping their idols, including the Nazarene.
We are not at that point in the redemption process yet.
Therefore, Hayovel is not fulfilling prophecy whatsoever. They think their actions are actually going to bring the return of their idol god-man and that Jewish people will be the ones bowing before him and declaring him god! Chas v’shalom! G-d forbid! Hayovel may wish to bless the people of Israel but it is with ulterior motives. Only Jews and Noahides should be permitted to work the vineyards and farms in Israel.
No Companies or people should be assisting "Hayovel"
Absolutely. Yasher koach and thank you!
DeleteThere is lashon hara which is notonly permitted, but is a mitzvah to publicize. It is forbidden to remain quiet when Jews are in danger.
ReplyDeleteIf you really do know these people personally, then be a friend, do a mitzvah, and warn them that they are angering HKB"H and there will be severe consequences for all those involved and those who remained quiet. Tell them they must stop hosting, promoting, encouraging, enabling, accepting and otherwise engaging with HaYovel and their group of Christian volunteers!
"There is lashon hara which is notonly permitted, but is a mitzvah to publicize. It is forbidden to remain quiet when Jews are in danger."
ReplyDeleteI agree. It's one thing for gentiles individually to involve themselves (without "outreach" of course). It's also one thing for Jewish run organizations run according to Jewish principles to reach out to gentiles. These goyish-run groups should not have any legitimacy or freedom to operate in Israel at all. They should be shunned. And the relationships they established with Jewish organizations and businesses in Israel should be publicized. It is not possible to separate their agenda from their efforts.