11 September 2016

Jews and Non-Jews: The Conclusion of the Matter

8 Elul 5776

In reality, there can be no "conclusion" of this matter until Mashiach comes, may it even be today! But, to wrap up this discussion, we need to try, I think, to understand the "why" of it. And, of course, the answers given are as varied as those who are involved in one way or another with non-Jews at this time. But, despite that, I think there is one underlying reason and if we can grasp that, we might be able to protect ourselves and others from falling prey to the same mistakes.

Here are some of the excuses reasons I have heard from different groups and their leaders about why they are in bed involved with non-Jews:
  • These non-Jews have a lot of political clout which we can harness for Israel's good.
  • They can sway Congress.
  • They can fight BDS.
  • They can be hasbara spokespersons.
  • The Jew needs to know he is not alone and that he has friends among the nations.
  • They're so nice.
  • They have some good qualities, we can learn a lot from them.
  • They don't missionize.
  • They are going to help us. 
  • We need them. 
  • We can't be redeemed without them.
There's a commonality that they all share. You can't point to one traditional halachic source to base it on. What you hear in place of sources is "I think" and "I believe". It's what makes one such person say: 
"I personally believe that everybody looks at the Torah backwards. I think that everyone looks at the Torah being about the Jewish people and I think it's just the opposite and I think rather than being about the Jewish people it's about the "ger" that you're talking about, it's about the nations, it's about bringing the nations in.... I personally believe that this message is so important, because it's what's meant to bring geulah. It's what's meant to bring redemption."
It is no less idolatrous when I set my own opinions and feelings in the place of God and His commandments than if I set up a statue of a Buddha and offered it food. Even the wisest of men - King Solomon - erred in this way, so we are certainly not invulnerable.

What it all comes down to is this: "HKB"H is not enough!" That's what they are really saying. "I can't trust HKB"H. I can't appreciate how He is running His world, so I must take matters into my own hands." But, this is a trap set by the Yetzer HaRa on behalf of his own Master, (Devarim 13:1-5)...
Everything I command you, that you shall be careful to do it. You shall neither add to it, nor subtract from it.  
If there will arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of a dream, and he gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder of which he spoke to you happens, [and he] says, "Let us go after other gods which you have not known, and let us worship them," you shall not heed the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of a dream; for the Lord, your God, is testing you, to know whether you really love the Lord, your God, with all your heart and with all your soul.
You shall...
  1. follow the Lord, your God, ...
  2. fear Him, ...
  3. keep His commandments,...
  4. heed His voice,...
  5. worship Him,...
  6. and cleave to Him. 
I don't see anywhere that it says we should make alliances with the non-Jews.

All I'm trying to say is - don't fall into this trap. Mark its boundaries and warn others to avoid this trap...

What I really want to say is - HKB"H IS ENOUGH!! We don't need anyone or anything else - AYN OD MILEVADO!!!


  1. The list of excuses that you listed above just proves the ignorance and non-Yirat Shamayim, these Jews have. It is inexcusable and the stupid excuses they give either makes you laugh or cry. Almost 2000 yrs of galut and the assimilation it has brought & throwing away the yoke of Heaven has made these Jews almost no different than any gentile. They better wake up before H' has lost all His patience. Their thinking has no connection to H' and they have no faith except in mortal man. Very, very distressing.

    About Breslov nto answering your questions makes me believe they are no longer Breslov and have either been bought off or intinudated, and if so, they have become a disgrace. Hopefully, you will get a satisfactory response, othrwise, it would prove true what I just stated.


    1. Please see my subsequent blog post thanking them for their swift action and explanation of what happened. I think I've been too hard on them, so in light of all that, I am removing some of the comments which probably should not have been published in the first place.

  2. Thank you for your input. My wife and I are Noahides and follow Breslev and I even went to Uman with the Breslev group in 2013. Since we have given up xtianity we are pretty much alone. Thats okay the desert is fine. We struggle with xtians every day. We know their tactics. But for the jews to be sucked in by their tactics is abhorrent to us. We still havent heard from Breslev.

    1. Not to be insulting, but Noahides should not be affiliating with any Jewish groups. The thing is righteous gentiles are not supposed to have any kind of religion. If you want religion in your life, the only option is Judaism, but that's for converts not Noahides. You say you are alone, but surely you have friends and family, co-workers. You could get together for a picnic or clean up the park or have a fun day for disadvantaged kids. That is the life of a Noahide. You find ways to connect with other people to make the world a better place. Do good deeds. Just don't try to find a replacement for what you had in Xianity. That was wrong.

  3. It is especially bad when justifying intermarriage and supporting organizations in the US that promote intermarriage via social events and meetings.

  4. who is "breslev"? there are so many different groups and rabbanim under the very loose banner of breslev--so many it can make your head spin. please don't generalize. there is no "the breslev" group. and to generalize in this way is actually lashon hara. you can hold the people behind this responsible for their personal views who are unfortunately hiding behind a banner, but there is no such accepted view in "breslev."

    1. thanks. my point still stands. this is still one group under the breslev banner and they represent their own style of "breslev." great kiruv work and holy teachers, and they should be blessed, but they are not the only face of breslev and do not represent the only voice in breslev--which is actually rebbe nachman's strength. i am only taking issue that there is an impression that they represent all of breslev.

    2. for example, i know of one particular group in breslev that has built many institutions over many years and has an iron-clad policy of not accepting any donations from non-jews. nor do they chase after them. they have been offered tremendous sums of money, but have consistently turned it down. however, if anyone, regardless of religion or creed comes to the door for advice, encouragement, etc., or even to the synagogue to pray, they are accepted warmly and respectfully. there are other groups as well who have different responses to this issue.

    3. Point well-taken. Just letting you know which group specifically I was addressing. I can't speak for anyone else and I know next to nothing about Breslev. Or any other "sect" for that matter. In my mind, there are Jews on the right path and Jews on the wrong path and Jews who are temporarily off the path.

    4. agreed. and i think maybe the reason the geula is taking so long is because we are waiting for hashem to bring back even those on the wrong path. thank you for your blog.

    5. Thank you for your informative comments. :-)

  5. I heard recently from a few rabbis (not Breslov) that Jews have the responsibility to make sure non Jews understand and are aware of the seven mitzvot for bnei noach. To pull them away from idoltry and closer to Hashem. It seemed strange to me to hear that awe don't proselytize and never go running after non Jews to start relationships that may prove dangerous to our observance. One would have to be strong and knowledgeable as a very learned rav so I don't see how the average Jew could have that responsibility as well as being responsible for every Jew which must take precedence.

    1. This is a new thing. And it abounds, as I have said before, among groups run by Modern Orthodox American olim BTs and a few converts. While some Chareidi institutions are known to have taken money from Hagee and one is known to have hosted a group of Xians and given them access to children, by and large, Chareidi Jews (and their rabbis) are not involved with this. And I imagine that is because they have respect for Da'at Torah. They don't decide for themselves what laws they will keep and what they will bend to suit their needs and hidden agendas.

      There is no mitzvah that commands us nor any halachah which allows us to take Torah to the non-Jews.

      They have already been made aware of the Sheva Mitzvot and they can find everything they need to know about it online. There is no need to move them into our homes!! Or to go to their homes and sit and eat with them.

      This is kefirah, short and simple. There is no other acceptable explanation.

      And yes, all of this is lashon hara, but it is the kind of lashon hara that is necessary in order to protect other innocent Jews.

      Believe me, I'd like nothing better than to wash my hands of the whole thing, but I look around and no one else has stepped up, so I have to do it, much as I dislike it.

      Like anyone else rooted in gevurah, I just want everyone to do the right thing so we can all have a nice life. Following the rules makes order and order leads to happiness and fulfillment.

      What we've been looking at is a free-for-all and it is creating massive confusion and chaos in the Jewish world and the non-Jewish world.

      The poor gentiles not only don't know what to call their deity anymore, they don't know what to call themselves when they give him up.

  6. Also, this is the first time that we're hearing that Jews take the Torah to non-Jews. This was ALWAYS a great sin. You are not allowed to teach Torah to non-Jews, other than their Seven Laws of Noach!!! nili

    1. Well, Nili, not only are they learning Torah, they are even teaching it! With no time at all spent in yeshivah, of course, and not just Torah but Kabbalah, too!! Is this insane or what? I feel like I've fallen into Cloud Cuckoo Land.

  7. i think the gentiles will be okay, no need to pity them--and it will be a beautiful world for all in the end (despite some unpleasantness that may come along the way), everyone according to their intrinsic place. everyone receives an "aliyah" with the geula. i.e., i think that the shift going on in the christian world where they are questioning the nature of God as they are moving towards a more pure monotheism is part of God's plan as well (the Rambam agrees with this). I also totally agree that Jews need to channel their energies on sharpening their own Torah observance--everything else will then fall into place. i have a much more positive and hopeful outlook on how God runs the world and everyone in it. because He is a good God who loves His creation and wants it to succeed. and i am also rooted in gevura:)

  8. To all of you.
    I was raised in communism.
    Not brainwashed by churches like many Jews from Europe are. Also not brainwashed by communist by having a lot of private education.
    I must tell you that reading the toldot yeshu ha notzri was an eye opener.
    You see the story from the side of the halacha.
    How ridicoulous this whole apicorism started. But having relations outside of marriage and creating mamzerim.
    The main difference between goyim and the Children of Hashem, us, is keeping the covennant.
    It roots in Shmirat ha B'rit, Shmirat Eyenayim.
    Tzniut. Family purity.
    My grandmother said that womans beauty brings a lot of trouble.

    Most of us are back, in Eretz Israel, Holy land.
    We supose to uproot any kind of apicorism, any kind of avoda zara. The Torah, our Blue Print for living, is very clear about that.

    When i read the toldot, i understood the similarity with that time and ours.
    The ingnorance of rules comes mostly from impurity, family impurity. We mixed so much...
    We ingnored so much if the Light !
    Men being slaves of lilith...
    Women in slavery of gashmiut.
    Children sold to mamon.
    Wake up!
    How can we, children of G'd, walk in this dirt?
    We need to purify ourselfs by deep, and i mean deep, truthout TSHUVA. Thats the only chance!!! !!! !!! !!! !
    Read the Torah again.
    Learn the halacha, every day new rule.
    Look at your wife, wash your eyes!
    See your husband!
    The unity of husband and wife home shel be strong as the bond between Hashem and our people.
    Do you love your wife unconditionaly as Hashem loves Israel?
    Do you adore your husband as we adore our Father.
    Start to do that. Step by step.
    Scream for help.
    Make it easy for yourself, no stumbling blogs.
    Separate first the tuma away from you.
    Make the house holy.
    Eat just kosher on your mizbeah=table for Hashem.
    Cry out!
    Do whatever you need to do to be part of our holy nation again.
    Just real TSHUVA help, no excuses.
    There is so much suffering because we did not separate us from goyim.
    Renew your thinking!
    You do no need the romans, americans, europeans..

    We only need Hashem.!
    Do you realize, that there is nothing but Him?
    The G'd of Avraham, Itchak and Jaacov. The G'd of Israel.

    Now keep away the tuma.

    And recognise and root out apicorism in our midst!

    Look how discusting a jew can become if turning his back to our rules, the halacha.

    Orna Nitzevet

  9. Yes. Yes. Sounds right.

  10. Beautifully said, Orna! Kol Hakavod. nili

    1. Agreed, Nili! I meant to say that when I published it. In fact, I almost made a separate blog post out of it, but I didn't want to embarrass Orna Nitzevet.

  11. Thank you. I am happy that in my own 'English' it was still understandable. It pains me so much to see my people suffering. While it can be solved so easy. Hashem is waiting for us. Yes, we have gone true a lot. And now we stand just a moment before the Chupa. THE SHABBAT.
    Same way as we prepare for going to wedding, He expect us to clean up.
    Waiting for everyone of us until certain time. Its going to be beautiful wedding!
    Shechina is waiting. Angels are waiting! Shabbat is waiting!
    Mashiah is waiting for us!
    See the eyes of a Jew, and you see Geula. Hearts are melting. Lashon is cleaning up. It will be only Lashon ha Kodesh to speak!
    To men:
    Tefilin:connect your heart and mind!
    Prayer: clean your speech!
    Shabbat: live the holiness, happiness, wholeness that we are created for with your family!

    To woman:
    Dress beautiful and modestly!
    Speak modestly!
    Keep the Tahara ha mishpacha!
    Please keep kosher, the food that go inside, change you to good or bad. Eat pure food, no products.
    Anavim/kosher wine,
    Chita without klipot in Challot
    Pure Israeli kosher olive oil,
    And in desert
    Should be your basic meal.
    To sanctify Shabbat with the 7 spieces that Hashem gave us, to serve Him fully, and uplift our Neshamot close to Him.

    Orna Nitzevet