Idol worshiping can also be, when people are obsessed with material things, and also following humans, like actors, those also in role of guiding people according to their beliefs, like religious teachers, do.
Although we agree with all of Rabbi Richter's points, we want to encourage him and everyone else to refrain from using this term "idolatry," unless referring specifically to עבודת פסילים. The "clever" Christians have long since abandoned most all pagan symbology and depictions of their false deity. Even you have told me this.
Every time the term "idolatry" is used, these Christians simply say, "You can't be referring to us!"
We recommend the term "foreign worship," or at least "avodah zarah," accompanied by an explanation.
Regarding Rabbi E. Melamed, it seems he has always had these heretical views. As Chazal teach us, most of the rabbis at the end of days will be Erev Rav. The Ruach Hakodesh and wisdom of our Sages are always spot on!
xianity is absolutely idol worship for Jews. And they do their utmost to convert Jews, chalila. For that alone they are wicked.
As to what can constitute idol worship in general, the obsession with Trump definitely qualifies. For that alone I wish that he would withdraw from politics. The geula is crowning Hashem as melech. Putting one's hope in basar vedam is antithetical to the geula itself.
It is avodah zarah for *everyone*. The latest strategy of Christians is to remove themselves from this category. I was glad to hear R' Richter change his terminology. I hope that he will continue to do this going forward.
This is my point and my warning. R' E. Melamed recently put out an opinion piece on non-Jews being allowed to pray via an intercessor. Here it is in English and in Hebrew. This is nothing new. But those Christians living next door to him do not pray this way, not in the least.
We believe, due to the language he uses in his article, that it is his next logic step to begin discussing gerei toshav (resident aliens), and how these Christians qualify.
What no one want to face is that his opinion is well and good for outside of Israel. But for non-Jews to reside in the Land, they must except the truth of the entire Torah.
We have yet to find any rabbis challenging him on this. We find this to be particularly disturbing. R' E. Melamed is forward thinking in this way, whereas so many other Religious Zionists have no vision, and just assume sit around and allow Mashi'ah to come and do all the work, the antithesis of Religious Zionism.
I hope that you will all follow, and support ICW's efforts to prevent the floodgates to open for Christians to flow into the land.
christianity, worshiping j.c.penny: of course it's idol worship! G-d is not a man! Num 23:19, Hosea 11:9, 1 Sam. 15:29. Ezekial 18:20-23 a righteous man can not atone for the wicked or anyone else.
You, and others, are missing the point. We are speaking of the halakhic (Torah legal) definition of idolatry, now what we "feel" is or is not idol worship. It is imperative that we use the more encompassing term avodah zarah (foreign worship) to described Christianity.
Too many Jews, including many religious Jews, have fooled themselves into believing that Christianity is not avodah zarah. This ridiculous assumption began with the Christian censorship of halakhic works, such as the Rambam's Mishneh Torah, changing avodah zarah to avodat hakokhavim u'mazaloth (worship of stars and constellations), a term which the Rambam himself never used.
This continued with the used of the term idolatry, something which the Christians did not like either. They simply manipulated its definition throughout history, and continue to do so today.
The [clever] Christians now look us straight in the eyes and say, "Look! No idols here! We pray only to/in spirit!" and Jews buy into it. They look their Hebrew [only] speaking rabbis in their faces and tell them so.
We've got a serious problem in Israel. And very few individuals seem to be willing to step up to the plate.
Rabbi Tovia Singer is fighting this and I watch most of his videos . I'm against smarming up to xians. "Some with chariots and some with horses, but we in the name of Hashem our G-d call out" (psalm 20) we only need G-d for everything.
Idol worshiping can also be, when people are obsessed with material things, and also following humans, like actors, those also in role of guiding people according to their beliefs, like religious teachers, do.
ReplyDeleteNu
Interesting (and predictable) comments here:
ReplyDeleteRadical Islam, fundamentalist Christianity pose a threat to Judaism - opinion
Although we agree with all of Rabbi Richter's points, we want to encourage him and everyone else to refrain from using this term "idolatry," unless referring specifically to עבודת פסילים. The "clever" Christians have long since abandoned most all pagan symbology and depictions of their false deity. Even you have told me this.
ReplyDeleteEvery time the term "idolatry" is used, these Christians simply say, "You can't be referring to us!"
We recommend the term "foreign worship," or at least "avodah zarah," accompanied by an explanation.
Rb. Eliezer Melamed, who does not appear interested in having any discussion about this, who appears to be insulated by his English speaking gate keepers, for some reason believes that Christians even pray though an intercessor (בשיתוף). We have shown that his Christian neighbors pray directly to Yoshke/Oto Ish, and believe that he was and will be a physical manifestation of The Almighty.
Someone seems to have provided him with inaccurate information.
See @09:35
DeleteRegarding Rabbi E. Melamed, it seems he has always had these heretical views.
ReplyDeleteAs Chazal teach us, most of the rabbis at the end of days will be Erev Rav.
The Ruach Hakodesh and wisdom of our Sages are always spot on!
xianity is absolutely idol worship for Jews. And they do their utmost to convert Jews, chalila. For that alone they are wicked.
ReplyDeleteAs to what can constitute idol worship in general, the obsession with Trump definitely qualifies. For that alone I wish that he would withdraw from politics. The geula is crowning Hashem as melech. Putting one's hope in basar vedam is antithetical to the geula itself.
It is avodah zarah for *everyone*. The latest strategy of Christians is to remove themselves from this category. I was glad to hear R' Richter change his terminology. I hope that he will continue to do this going forward.
DeleteThis is my point and my warning. R' E. Melamed recently put out an opinion piece on non-Jews being allowed to pray via an intercessor. Here it is in English and in Hebrew. This is nothing new. But those Christians living next door to him do not pray this way, not in the least.
We believe, due to the language he uses in his article, that it is his next logic step to begin discussing gerei toshav (resident aliens), and how these Christians qualify.
What no one want to face is that his opinion is well and good for outside of Israel. But for non-Jews to reside in the Land, they must except the truth of the entire Torah.
We have yet to find any rabbis challenging him on this. We find this to be particularly disturbing. R' E. Melamed is forward thinking in this way, whereas so many other Religious Zionists have no vision, and just assume sit around and allow Mashi'ah to come and do all the work, the antithesis of Religious Zionism.
I hope that you will all follow, and support ICW's efforts to prevent the floodgates to open for Christians to flow into the land.
Israel Christian Watch
christianity, worshiping j.c.penny: of course it's idol worship! G-d is not a man! Num 23:19, Hosea 11:9, 1 Sam. 15:29. Ezekial 18:20-23 a righteous man can not atone for the wicked or anyone else.
ReplyDeleteYou, and others, are missing the point. We are speaking of the halakhic (Torah legal) definition of idolatry, now what we "feel" is or is not idol worship. It is imperative that we use the more encompassing term avodah zarah (foreign worship) to described Christianity.
DeleteToo many Jews, including many religious Jews, have fooled themselves into believing that Christianity is not avodah zarah. This ridiculous assumption began with the Christian censorship of halakhic works, such as the Rambam's Mishneh Torah, changing avodah zarah to avodat hakokhavim u'mazaloth (worship of stars and constellations), a term which the Rambam himself never used.
This continued with the used of the term idolatry, something which the Christians did not like either. They simply manipulated its definition throughout history, and continue to do so today.
The [clever] Christians now look us straight in the eyes and say, "Look! No idols here! We pray only to/in spirit!" and Jews buy into it. They look their Hebrew [only] speaking rabbis in their faces and tell them so.
We've got a serious problem in Israel. And very few individuals seem to be willing to step up to the plate.
Rabbi Tovia Singer is fighting this and I watch most of his videos . I'm against smarming up to xians. "Some with chariots and some with horses, but we in the name of Hashem our G-d call out" (psalm 20) we only need G-d for everything.
Delete