Hopefully, that's what this next election will accomplish - and then Mashiach can be revealed to us.
Dati Leumi Rabbonim Express Support for Yahadut HatorahOtzma Yehudit made a very big mistake when they had the opportunity to join with NOAM, but chose instead to remain with the "mixture." Whoever goes with them will be making the same mistake. Just sayin'...
...Included in the agreement is a statement that “Yahadut Hatorah is not interested in chas v’sholom pulling out of areas of Eretz Yisrael as per the decision of the Moetzas Gedolei Torah”. There is also a statement “The increased presence of Jews in the Old City [of Jerusalem] and in areas of Yehuda and Shomron includes us as among those who are committed to caring for their personal safety.”
Shifting strategy, Gantz puts kibosh on coalition with ultra-Orthodox parties
...The announcement signaled a shift for Gantz, who has been making efforts to keep in good terms with potential future political partners from the Haredi parties.
The new strategy aligned Gantz with Blue and White No. 2 Yair Lapid, who has been pushing a tougher stance against the ultra-Orthodox parties, accusing them of “extorting” money out of the government and refusing to have members of their community serve in the military.
In an interview with the Ynet news site Tuesday, Gantz indicated that he would not contact the United Torah Judaism (UTJ) or Shas parties for coalition talks after the election: “We are against blackmail, we will contact Likud to form a government that is based on the secular majority in Israel.”
...Later in the day, Gantz at an event in Beersheba appeared to also rule out joining forces with other religious right-wing parties.
IN NOAM NEWS
We have a saying that whatever is done in secret has a blessing. So, NOAM being kept off the polls worked to its advantage in that respect; however, it also was holding back the support of those who need to know they have a solid chance of getting elected before committing their vote. (Haval that people won't just do the right thing and let HKB"H work out the details!)
Since reaching and even exceeding their first goal of 40,000 online votes in a week, NOAM is now attracting attention. They have allegedly been approached by Likud to withdraw in exchange for some quid pro quo as per Feiglin. NOAM's leaders reportedly refused.
It's my understanding that were NOAM to be convinced that they did not have a chance of getting elected, they would ask their base to support UTJ. They will never go with the secular right.
"It's not often in a person's life that he can determine history,
we are now at such a moment."
NOAM signed up over 40,000 people. If each of those would bring three more, NOAM would be in the Knesset and Israel could return to being a normal people.
Why do you favour Noam over Otzma?
ReplyDeleteNOAM is a more serious, more committed entity led by da'at Torah. With three of their leading candidates already disqualified and their willingness to take on a secular candidate in order to extend their range of support, Otzma Yehudi ranks lower in my estimation.
DeleteAnd don't forget that I have no illusions that, even if NOAM were to get into the Knesset, anything would change wrt the current regime. What I expect to see from this is that HKB"H will take note of how many people are willing to "choose the blessing over the curse" and will count it towards bringing in the regime of Mashiach. It would be a show of readiness to accept Mashiach on our part, so the more support this gets the better the outcome can be.
Without Ben-Ari, Marzel and Gopshtein, I see no difference between Otzma Bayit Yehudi.
I will just add further that we have to have complete faith in HKB"H that if we make the right choice without calculations about "the lesser of two evils" or who has the most "realistic" shot, we can be assured that whatever happens is in our best interests. No matter what, HKB"H will make the final choice for us, but this is our chance to express our confidence and faith in HIM.
DeleteBy people thinking it's all up to them and this one or that one is our true savior, it is allowing the powers that be to manipulate everyone through FEAR that their vote will be wasted! How can a Jew faithful to the Torah ever cast a "wasted" vote when HKB"H is the One ultimately in command?
If the Hareidi parties did not seem so comfortable in their Knesset seats and with the status quo and if they expressed any concern for any other religious community outside their own, I would vote for them, but alas, that's my problem with them.
Apparently, this is a promise some Dati rabbis are trying to extract from there before giving them their support.
I agree with Devash - and also, if you are really sick and tired of the foreign system we live under, this is a way to signal that you want to leave it without the "alternative" of not voting, which is no signal at all (after all, how can you count those who don't vote if they leave no trace of themselves anywhere?). It only works if there is a group who WILL NOT COMPROMISE - which is the lesson I learned last time - because Otzma compromised then, too, and was cheated out of any seats at all. As far as I was concerned, they had an excuse then because they were the least compromising of all the parties.
DeleteThe difference this time around is that we now have NOAM.
Earlier this year (like, last spring) I saw a sign up the street from where I live that said "A normal people in Israel" in Hebrew. I didn't know where this came from at that time, but later I found out. As Devash said, NOAM is more serious and more committed to progress along Torah lines.
I only wish I could donate to them. They need financial support.
To take elections here seriously, you have to be believe everyone is honest and above-board, but we know for sure that the system is as crooked as can be. So normal "calculations" can't even process this in. The right-wing has to be prepared for the possibility that a unity-secular anti-Torah government might arise before Mashiach in order to shake people up and shatter the status-quo illusion. And that, too, would ultimately be up to HKB"H. He might even do it as a test of our resolve, our courage and our faith.
DeleteMashiach is coming, it's just a matter of which side will bring him faster or with less pain. (You can't have it both ways.)
THE KEY IS NOT TO "FEAR" ANYTHING OR ANYONE BUT HASHEM!!!!!!
Thank you for taking the time to reply. Up until now I've been Otzma. I feel that Oztma and Noam should unite, a bit late now I know or at least have a vote sharing arrangement. (Is that still possible?). Your "if everyone who signed brings another three voters" etc is a huge "if". On the other hand Otzma just got four seats in the latest poll. I know the polls can be fickle, but just saying. Also, I read somewhere, through a link on your blog, that Noam puts "kedushat hatsava" above "shleimut eretz yisrael" and their rabbis teach that you have to evict your own parents if so ordered. This is something that I cannot agree with. And yes Hashem is in control of everything, and He put us in the world of asiya where we do the best we can, living in the paradox that "hakol tsafui vehareshut netuna". I also read, can't remember where, that it was Noam that didn't want to join Otzma on account of them having a woman on their list. So overall, at the moment I am intending to vote Otzma.
DeleteElisheva: I read somewhere, through a link on your blog, that Noam puts "kedushat hatsava" above "shleimut eretz yisrael" and their rabbis teach that you have to evict your own parents if so ordered.
DeleteYou'd have to show me where it says such a thing, because that is for sure NOT TRUE.
Wrt Gush Katif, Rabbi Tau told his students that they MUST tell their commander that they can NOT carry out such an order to evict ANY Jew.
DeleteJust a couple of more things and I;m done on this subject.
DeleteAs I already wrote in two places, the issue with Otzma joining with NOAM had to do with bringing in a mechallel Shabbat and mitzvot into a Torah party. Where is the sense in that? It had nothing to do with a woman; however if you think there is a natural place for a woman in a public political leadership role, you are thinking like a Western democrat, not a Torah Jew.
All these calculations you've outlined are exactly what I've been talking about, so... It sounds like Otzma is a good fit for you. NOAM is not Otzma 2.0. It's a precursor to the Kingdom of Israel government.
http://esseragaroth.blogspot.com/
DeleteElisheva, I am not ignoring you. I am preparing a more detailed response, but it will only come later today as I am very pressed for time at the moment. Suffice to say for now, I am right on what I have presented thus far.
DeleteJust to clarify, in case their was any confusion, I certainly did NOT state:
Delete"Also, I read somewhere, through a link on your blog, that Noam puts "kedushat hatsava" above "shleimut eretz yisrael" and their rabbis teach that you have to evict your own parents if so ordered."
I also certainly do not believe for a minute that Rav Tau said this either, even though I disagree with him on such matters.
I do know that he even called Rabbi Eli Sedan of [the very mamlakhti/statist] Yeshiva Bnei David, to tell him that he had gone too far by telling his student never to refuse orders, or something to that effect. (I do not know the exact words).
As I have written in Why I Cannot Vote for the Noam Party.
I did just make a clarification, though. I regret any confusion this post may have caused.
So, I guess I shouldn't worry about whether the government looks back at its master like a dog, and just go ahead and vote for the only party that has a shot at doing H's will AT ALL.
ReplyDeleteDo I get it yet?
That's my take on it.
DeleteThere is only so much each individual can do. We are only responsible for that. Hashem does the rest. But, Hashem does not do it alone (although He certainly could.) That's why he chose first Avraham Avinu, then Yitzchak Avinu and Yaaqov Avinu and then his descendants - Bnei Yisrael.
All this stuff I've been posting all week? That is Eisav trying to do our job. Still trying to take back the birthright, still trying to replace us, still convinced being a "light to the nations" is his job which is why "he" is spreading the tumah of a free democratic system all over the world, to its utter detriment! Like Eisav's religion, his government takes "freedom from the law" to an extreme that threatens the very foundation of the world God created.
What beautiful and perfect comments here by both Devash and HDG!
ReplyDeleteThe righteous will surely bring Moshiach tzdkeinu!
mistankenly, I left the word 'women' out in the above comment. Having trouble with the typing on my old laptop.
ReplyDeleteSorry!
I've got several typos, too, don't worry about it. ;-) Besides I liked it the way you wrote it.
DeleteIf anyone else hears of anything or thinks they know something about NOAM that they feel is wrong or unsupportable, let me know so we can get the truth out.
ReplyDelete