10 April 2008

Speaking the Truth Does Not = HATE

There is quite a phenomenon happening in the Jewish world today. An awful lot of Jews seem to agree with the xians that the Messiah has already come. Xianity is no longer considered to be idolatry, Jews are speaking in churches, sleeping under gentile roofs and eating at gentile tables, accepting money and "friendship" (look how the two are inseparable) and praising the fine gentiles who are donating so generously---"no strings attached." They see this as a fulfillment of messianic prophecies, but mostly because this is what their xian friends are telling them and since they don't know differently, they just accept it and pass it on. Sounds good, huh?

The tried and true wisdom of the past is no longer heeded---"there's no such thing as a free lunch" and "you don't get something for nothing."

If you are one of those who has joined this party, then I'm sorry to burst your balloon, but Torah has some exceptional things to say on the subject that you had better take to heart if you call yourself a Torah-observant Jew.
Rambam, Mishneh Torah, Hilchot Avodat Kochavim, 10:1---

We may not draw up a covenant with idolaters which will establish peace between them [and us] and yet allow them to worship idols, as [Devarim 7:2] states: "Do not establish a covenant with them." Rather, they must renounce their [idol] worship or be slain. It is forbidden to have mercy upon them, as [Devarim, ibid] states: "Do not be gracious to them."

Accordingly, if we see an idolater being swept away or drowning in the river, we should not help him. If we see that his life is in danger, we should not save him. It is, however, forbidden to cause one of them to sink or push him into a pit or the like, since he is not waging war against us.

To whom do the above apply? To gentiles. It is a mitzvah, however, to eradicate Jewish traitors, minnim (informers), and apikorsim (heretics), and to cause them to descend to the pit of destruction, since they cause difficulty to the Jews and sway the people away from God, as did Jesus of Nazareth and his students, and Tzadok, Baithos, and their students. May the name of the wicked rot.

Note that this places Xianity squarely in the category of idolatry as defined by the Rambam.

Rambam, Mishneh Torah, Hilchot Avodat Kochavim, 10:4---

Why is it forbidden to sell them [land or anything attached to the land? Because [Devarim 7:2] states: "Do not be gracious with them." [This phrase can also be interpreted:] "Do not give them a resting place in the land." As long as they do not have a resting place in the land, their stay will be a temporary one.

[This prohibition also] forbids speaking about [idolaters] in a praiseworthy manner. It is even forbidden to say, "Look how beautiful that idolater's body is." How much more so is it forbidden to praise their deeds or to hold their words dear as [the phrase states]: "Do not be gracious with them." [This phrase can also be interpreted:] "Do not look at them graciously," for doing so will cause you to draw close to them and learn from their wicked behavior.

[Also implicit in the above phrase is that] it is forbidden to give them a present.

Consider what a spiritually poor generation we are and how assimilated we have become.



  1. What about B'nei Noach? How can we teach them if we do not allow them to come? I do agree with you though, in principle. Though I do think that it is harsh not to save a Christian from danger. Does it not say that HaShem's mercy extends to all of His creatures? Are we not to imitate Him?

  2. First of all, BK, you are not agreeing with me. This the Rambam's Mishneh Torah.

    Second: About B'nei Noach, there is an accepted Jewish definition of who is a Ben Noach and who is not. Real righteous gentiles, those who are not followers of any man-made religion, but who adhere to the Seven Laws of Noach as explicated by the rabbis should be consulting with their LOR (local Orthodox rabbi) on any questions they may have, not on anyone who sets up shop anonymously on the internet! What do feel qualifies you to be the one to "teach" them?

    Third: it is not up to us to "think" about what is right and wrong. At Har Sinai we said, "na'aseh v'nishma"---we will do and then we will hear the reasons for it. Chazal have explained our obligations and responsibilities. There are time-proven reasons for why we are told these things. You learn them in any yeshiva. I wonder if you have any yeshiva training. These issues are covered in the very beginning. If not, then how do you expect to live a Jewish life if you haven't learned Jewishly?

    Last: Think about it, BK. How do you reconcile Hashem's mercy with the commands to annihilate men, women, children and animals in our formative years as a nation? What did the Navi Shmuel do to Agag after Hashem ripped the kingship from Shaul for showing misplaced mercy on Amalek?

    I'd like you to answer the question that you have asked me. "Does it not say...?" Does it? Bring me the quote and its source...where does it say this???

  3. PS: We have to get the Jewish act together before we can "teach" the goyim anything.

    And they have to renounce their idolatry and come in search of Truth recognizing that the Truth is with the JEWS before they can be taught.

    If you really want to help your xian "friends," tell them that their first step is to give up their "Lamb"-god. You know, the one we slaughtered and roasted over an open fire on Shabbat Hagadol? How ironic that they say Yeshu is their "Passover Lamb" and that they celebrate his "sacrifice" in the spring despite evidence that, if it in fact ever occurred, it was most likely in the fall?

  4. These laws only apply in Eretz Yisrael. There is no mitzvah to hate or to eradicate idolatry in chutz laaretz. That's up to HaShem.

    Tehillim 145: 9 says that "HaShem is good to all; and His tender mercies are over all His works." We are commanded to imitate Him, therefore we should be merciful to His creatures.

    Talmud Avot 4:3

    [Ben Azzai] would say: Do not regard anyone with contempt, and do not reject anything, for there is no man who does not have his hour and nothing that does not have its place.

    Talmud Avot 3:10

    [Rabbi Chaninah ben Dosa] would say: Whoever is pleasing to his fellow creatures is pleasing to G-d; but whoever is not pleasing to his fellow creatures, G-d is not pleased with him.

    Talmud Avot 3:14

    [Rabbi Akiva] would say: Beloved is man who was created in the divine image. An extra amount of love is given to him because he was created in the divine image as it says (Genesis 9:6) "For in the image of G-d He made man."

    I agree that hatred and cruelty are sometimes necessary. However, like the Rambam explains in his Hilchot Avadim about Canaanite slaves, we should not work them cruelly since we are merciful children of a merciful father. Avraham was kind to all and taught goyyim about HaShem.

  5. You have changed the subject entirely. Who until now said anthing about eradication or hatred or cruelty, G-d forbid!, being a mitzvah? It certainly was not I.

    BK, are you saying that the Rambam's words were inspired by hatred and that those who follow his Torah are haters? Is it "hatred" of goyim or love of Jews?

    If you had learned in a yeshiva, you would know how to reconcile the words of chaz"l with the quotations you bring.

    Furthermore, you demonstrate well the danger of undirected learning. What does your Rav tell you? Where did he learn?

    As I said before. You are arguing with Rambam and the Torah not with me. Your 'sources' have not proved him wrong. It only proves that you do not understand the differences between Jews and gentiles. It proves that you have assimilated their misguided value that everyone is the same---a western idea that denies that Israel is a unique , a "chosen", people.

    The Rambam's words about 'interfaith' relationships were written in galut and go even more so for Jews living as a minority among non-Jews where the danger to their souls is greater.