3 Marcheshvan 5787
Yishai Fleisher speaking on behalf of Itamar Ben Gvir and Otzmah Yehudit:
"...We believe that the study of Torah, i.e. Jewish heritage, is a State value. It is a State value. Now, we need defense because Israel is an embattled country, so the defense is something - we can't have Torah without defense. We can't have anything without proper defense, so that comes first. We recognize the value of Torah and we have to find a middle ground to move forward...."
I daresay these remarks by Otzmah Yehudit's spokesperson, who was also formerly spokesperson for the Hebron Jewish Community, faithfully represent the views of most, if not all, of those who identify as Religious Zionists. And therein lies the crux of the matter.
Torah is far, far more than just Jewish heritage. Braided challah and gefilte fish is part of Jewish heritage! And claiming that it is "a" State value does not equate to it being the primary and supreme Jewish value. And still Torah is so much more. It is our very life...
Key Concepts in Jewish Tradition• "Torah is life itself": In Chassidic and Rabbinic thought, the Torah is viewed as the very heartbeat and essence of Jewish existence, rather than just an external set of laws or a framework. As taught by sages like Rabbi Boruch Ber Leibowitz, the Torah is not like oxygen that supports life from the outside—it is the very substance of life.• Tree of Life (Etz Chayim): The Torah is repeatedly referred to as a "Tree of Life" (Etz Chayim). Traditional sources emphasize that cutting oneself off from the Torah's path is akin to cutting oneself off from spiritual vitality and existence.• Connection to God: In Jewish theology, God and the Torah are deeply interconnected. Because God is the source of all life, connecting to His Torah means connecting directly to the source of life itself ("You who cling to Hashem, your G-d—you are all alive today" — Deuteronomy 4:4).• Elixir of Life: The Talmud (Yoma 72b) famously states that the Torah can be an elixir of life (sam chaim) or an elixir of death (sam mavet), depending on how and with what intent a person approaches it. (Gemini)
One of the key goals of Zionism was always to make Jews into Israelis, cutting us off from our relationship to the Torah. First to distance - lead us to this middle ground - and then to cut us off completely.
...Esau's intention... to meet each other halfway, with each modifying his conduct until they were alike (Yalkut Shimoni, Genesis 133).
Mr. Fleisher: "We recognize the value of Torah and we have to find a middle ground...."
Religious Zionism already stakes out the middle ground. It's a hybrid religion, combining traditional tenets of Judaism with the secular religion of Zionism. Herzl's vision of the New Jew but with a kippah and tallit. This is why the IDF was chosen as the vehicle to inculcate this hybrid monstrosity's "values" into all our future generations (since the founding of the State).
What is Religious Zionism most noted for - combining Torah study with military service. But, tell me, what does it do to the religious soldier when the military service requires him to violate the Torah he is learning over and over again throughout his service? When they are in conflict, it is the military might that wins out.
There is a place for Torah in a Torah-based military defending the values of a Torah-based society. There is no place for Torah in an American/EU substitute because they are antithetical. These things can not co-exist and this is why we find ourselves in the situation we are in today.
I can't let this go without addressing Mr. Fleisher's remarks on defense. Is Israel an "embattled country"? Absolutely, and it has been embattled for its entire modern history. You know this, but do you understand why? Not because we came back to the land and not because we set up our own government. It was and is because we did those things without establishing the Torah as the foundation for everything.
Mr. Fleisher: "...we can't have Torah without defense. We can't have anything without proper defense, so that comes first."
He has the cart before the horse.
The Torah came first at Har Sinai and it continues to be first in every time and in every way. In point of fact, THE TORAH IS OUR ONLY DEFENSE!! The military is simply the kli through which it operates. The Torah itself tells us that the camp has to be pure - it has to be a fitting vessel - and then it matters not how many soldiers you have or how mighty the enemy appears to be - "the victory will be the Lord's."
Only, we have no victory. We have fear and death rampant in our streets and homes, because we put defense above the Torah which is our only real defense. Remember how HKB"H held the mountain over our heads? If we were to refuse to accept the Torah, we were to be buried under that mountain because there would be no reason for us to exist otherwise. That has never changed! The same holds true even today!
The State is not doing the chareidim any favors (as they imagine) by 'letting' them learn in yeshivahs. They are in reality giving God a reason to let them continue to exist! As it stands today, their complete disconnect is bound to bring them down to the dustbin of history.
Although Religious Zionists try to mix Torah into the military camp, it is defiled by the wickedness of the secular Zionist ethos and remains an unfit vessel. Unbelievably, they actually seem to brag that they outweigh all other groups in the number of deaths in combat. They are "proud" of their children's "sacrifice". These are human sacrifices to a false god because when Israel went to war in full accord with the demands of the Torah - not one man was lost!!
In truth, we are in an unending war with everyone because we are first and foremost at war with God. The best of us honor the Torah, but we don't always obey the Torah. A tragic number of us don't believe in it and some go so far as to hate it and want to wipe it out.
Fleisher lost it long ago with regard to the Christians, and his involvement with them. But the State? The State is not a Torah value. Even I am surprised that he said this. This is classic mamlakhti (state loyalist) rhetoric.
ReplyDeleteThere has always been a continuum among RZ communities (plural), with state loyalism on one side (Rbs. Aviner, Cherlow, Sedan, Tau) and more Torah-oriented on the other (Rbs. Lior, Dudekevitch, Paley) on the other. The late Merkaz HaRav Kook Rosh Yeshivah Rb. Avraham Shapira told soldiers to refuse orders which were counter to Torah, such as throwing Jews out of their homes, and to be proud to sit in jail over this, clearly stating his position that Torah takes precedence over State law. In other words the state could not be a Torah value.
Personally, I appreciate many aspects of the State, in spite of all its shenanigans and anti-Torah actions. But when I pray for the return of the Kingdom of the line of David, am I not praying for the State's eventual fall? I wonder if RZs realize that is what they are doing.
IDF Chief: Haredi draft is a mitzvah
ReplyDeleteAt a memorial ceremony for fallen soldiers of the Commando Brigade, Chief of Staff Lt. Gen. Eyal Zamir did not limit himself to words of remembrance. He turned the moment into a clear and binding call: service in the IDF is a mitzvah, and drafting haredim is an operational, moral and existential necessity.
"In wartime, the importance of meaningful military service in the IDF becomes sharper – this is the most exalted of mitzvos – the mitzvah of defending the land, its citizens and our historical heritage," the Chief of Staff told bereaved families and soldiers. "This is a right, a duty and a yoke – which we bear with pride. We must strengthen the value of service in the IDF, expand the ranks, and support the soldiers as heroes of the nation and a model of Zionist excellence."
Here is further proof that the two can not coexist. Even those who have complied with service - it's not gonna be good enough until they compromise on the Torah. See here.
ReplyDeleteIn the early days did the Israelites need a massive army to defeat the enemy, or did Hashem say otherwise.
ReplyDeleteFor an example, see Bamidbar chapter 31. Also, Genesis 14, Shoftim 7 and Shmuel Alef 13-14.
DeleteOur hishtadlut are directly relate to the level of our faith. The greater our faith in HKB"H's assistance, the less hishtadlut is required from us and vice versa. That means that the numbers sent to fight would be decided on the needs of the time. I believe that was usually dictated by the Urim and Thumim.
To be fair I asked Gemini to report on the largest contingents...
Delete1. The Largest Nationwide Census Count: 1.57 Million Men
The largest overall figure for "sword-wielding soldiers" available for deployment occurs during King David's census.
• According to 1 Chronicles 21:5, the total military pool reached 1,570,000 men (1,100,000 from the northern tribes of Israel and 470,000 from Judah).
• A parallel account in 2 Samuel 24:9 places this total at 1,300,000 men (800,000 from Israel and 500,000 from Judah).
2. The Largest Single Battle Contingent: 800,000 Soldiers
The largest single force ever reported as explicitly sent out into a specific battle by an Israelite faction occurs in 2 Chronicles 13:3 during the civil war between the split kingdoms:
• King Jeroboam I of the Northern Kingdom of Israel deployed an army of 800,000 chosen warriors.
• They fought against King Abijah of the Southern Kingdom of Judah, who fielded a massive contingent of 400,000 chosen men.
good question, but note that in the midbar, the men were counted according to age of army service...so...
Delete-leah
So... what? What is your point?
DeleteI heard a clip of Rabbi Singer. He said he would never enter a church. Others need to follow the same principle.
ReplyDeleteAs opposed to what?
DeleteA Nice Zionist Motto: "Love One Another, Live in Peace, Have Freedom"
ReplyDeleteIsrael has opened its doors as a safe haven for every kind of immorality and call it noble. They point it out at every opportunity as a badge of honor for them. It seems everyone is welcome in the State of Israel except the 'extremist Jews' - chareidim and 'settlers'.
Main Haredi populations, outside of Israel:
ReplyDelete• United States: ~700,000
• United Kingdom: ~75,000
• Canada: ~30,000
• Argentina: ~13,500
• France: ~12,000
• Belgium: ~10,000
• South Africa: ~10,000
• Australia: ~7,500
• Mexico: ~7,500
• Switzerland: ~3,300
• Germany: ~3,000
• Austria: ~2,000
Slightly under half of the population is 18 or older. So approximately 400,000 adults. That's approximately ten mandates, and possibly more.
If the frummest amongst us showed genuine solidarity, and acted like Am Echad, the Haredim would be in charge. This is the root of nearly all our problems. But we are tragically am mefuzar umefurad, and that is just hte Haredim, and instead we get to be a haven for the likes of that ugandan, lesbian interfaith couple preaching kumbaya, almost certainly at the expense of our taxes.
Jews who care , in principle at least, have the ability to change things dramatatically, but instead we get sniffy if someone mentions the a word.
The mayhem is only going to get worse, in this world's terms, cos the mayhem is the purpose, funded by China that can't take on the West frontally, but can destroy it from within, and at source, cos Hashem is closing down the exile. We could speed things up, but people refuse to see the blatant message in front of their eyes.
Hitoreri
From Lowell's Brave Browser Computerized Robotic Assistant:
ReplyDeleteQUESTION: Did Ron Pundak say the purpose of Oslo was to get Israelis to stop thinking of themselves as JEWS and to start thinking of themselves as ISRAELIS?
ANSWER: Yes, Ron Pundak did say something very close to that. In a November 2013 interview with the International Crisis Group, he stated:
"Peace is not an objective by itself. It is a way to transition Israel from one era to another: to an era of what I consider is a normal state. Israelization of society rather than its judaization."
He also said, in the same vein, that "if people just stopped thinking of themselves as Jews or Muslims, Israelis or Palestinians, conflict would disappear."
These remarks have been widely cited by Israeli right-wing critics as evidence that Oslo's architects intended to dilute Israel's Jewish character, though Pundak's defenders note he consistently framed Oslo as safeguarding Israel's future as "a state for the Jews" through partition, arguing the opposite — that without a two-state solution, demographics would eventually erase Israel's Jewish majority.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Pundak (1955 -- 2014)
Extremely disappointed in Yishai Fleisher. Torah comes first; it is from
ReplyDeleteG-D Almighty! nothing trumps that.
We know that if it were not for the Torah over the past few millenia,
we would not be here as a 'people', a nation. It is only the Torah
that kept us to this day and forever. Of course, we know defense is
vital but not above Torah. Torah and the defense of our Land, people,
country should be united in every way. The Torah is what brings
victory to the defenders and defense of the nation!
It seems that he is losing his way.
Torah and the defense of the nation is like body and soul; one without
the other cannot succeed. Torah is both the Oral and Written Torah;
without both, it cannot be nor make sense and so it is with the Torah
protecting our people and the Land.
We must all build up our emunah and bitachon in HKB'H.
Ain Od Milvado! Once we achieve that, then nothing can interfere
with our victorious success!, bringing us our Geulah Shleimah!
yiddel